Talk:Doom's protagonist

can you proofread a term paper of mine? I want to make sure it's got correct grammar and spelling and also that it makes sense. you seem good at all three. thanks! --Cyb 10:40, 9 Jan 2005 (PST)

As a note, when posting on something it's better to make sense. -404 PS- I'll register sooner or later...

assaulted a superior officer
Is this canonical? It appears in the novels, but so does more back story about the character. I think the novels should not be treated as strictly canonical. Jdowland 15:37, 10 Apr 2005 (EDT)

Original Doom story, anyone? Bloodshedder 15:50, 10 Apr 2005 (EDT)


 * In DOOM, you're a space marine, one of Earth's toughest, hardened in combat and trained for action. Three years ago you assaulted a superior officer for ordering his soldiers to fire upon civilians. He and his body cast were shipped to Pearl Harbor, while you were transferred to Mars, home of the Union Aerospace Corporation.

Buddy Dacote
Is the Doom guy Buddy Dacote from the Doom Bible? According to the Bible, Buddy was sent to Tei Tenga for "showing up a superior officer". Also, Buddy dies at the end of episode 1. Fredrik 15:06, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Possibly thats where the character came from, but I dont think that means we should start referring to him as that. A large portion of the stuff in the Doom bible never got into the final game. Fraggle 15:58, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
 * We should of course not use that name instead of "Doom guy" here, but it might be worth mentioning as possibly being the character's "origin". Fredrik 16:18, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Halo reference to the Doomguy?
Jon's last edit says there's a reference to the Doomguy in Halo but I don't know what and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I suspect it's the design of the MJOLNIR armour Master Chief wears but this is debatable. -- TheDarkArchon 12:07, 10 April 2006 (UTC)


 * The Halo reference was 84.40.25.240, as was Quake. I thought I'd posted on the talk page asking for clarification of the Quake reference but I can't find it. -- Jdowland 13:29, 10 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Quake probably refers to the Doomguy in Quake 3.Fraggle 15:05, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Left handed?
The article asserts that he is left handed. While the pistol and fist are definitely used left handed, all the other weapons seem to be used in a right handed way (shotgun, chainsaw, plasma rifle). Ambidextrous or possibly just a glitch in the sprite design? :-) Fraggle 09:25, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Ambidextrous. He's an everyman. oTHErONE (Contribs) 10:29, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Wouldn't an everyman be right-handed, since 90 percent of the population is right-handed? Moreover, even for people with definite handedness, precise fine motor tasks are not invariably performed with the same hand.


 * sigh*  We always assume that id's programmers had a line of reasoning for every tiny little bit of superficial characterization in the game, but IMHO it is more likely that their deadlines didn't allow them to put any thought into it, and the explanation is simply that Kevin Cloud is somewhat ambidextrous (I don't know that he is, I'm just saying it's possible &mdash; professional artists sometimes develop it), or that after compositing they flipped a few of the sprites by accident or because for completely heuristic reasons they liked them better flipped.    Ryan W 18:28, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I think Doomguy keeps his pistol in left hand when using other weps(except shotgun, chainsaw, plasma) instead of holstering it.


 * There was a tangential discussion on the DoomGuy's handedness here and here on the ZDoom forums. The theory was that he is cross-dominant, favoring his left hand and his right eye. I'll quote Vaecrius: "Seems to me that the Doomguy is left-handed with a cross-dominant eye, so any two-handed weapon should be held right-handed and any one-handed weapon left-handed, so that the gun could always be lined up with the right eye." and "Since a pistol isn't held to the side of your body, you can use whichever hand you want, while a long gun has to be held along the side your aiming eye is on." Two people (Risen and DoomRater) provided anecdotal evidence that this theory was plausible, and the issue of shell ejection system as possibly forcing to use one hand rather than the other was also mentioned.


 * 'Scuse me to kinda come in here with no apparent reason other than this but, doomguy's left handed with the shotgun on my end... no seriously he is, I should take a picture but I dunno if I can post it here... 83.81.125.101 20:36, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * You must have an edited version of the game, he holds the shotgun so the butt end of the rifle is against his right shoulder and he pumps it with his left, I can only confirm it with the shotgun because you can see his hands, but the plasma rifle pulls to the left when he stops firing, as if he was pulling it towards his body, implying the same hold on it as the shotgun, those are the only examples I can remember besides that the sprite also holds the rifle like that. I am right handed and I hold a rifle the same way as the doom guy holds a shotgun: Right hand on the butt end and left on the forestock. B10Reaper 00:09, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Name in Spanish speaking countries
It says something about the marine being called "Doom" in Spanish. What source is there for that? I live in a Spanish speaking country (Argentina) and have never noted any such custom. I propose removing that part of the sentence. If anyone calls the marine "Doom", it's probably because they played Quake 3 a lot. Who is like God? 06:03, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Marines and the UAC
The article says the doomguy is "working for the UAC". If this is the case in any of the releases of the franchise, it should be attributed to whatever it applies to, and not poised as a general statement. In the original game the marines are just stationed in the area (where the military is employing the UAC facilities) and fly off to check what's wrong in Phobos. There's no mention of being employed by or taking orders from the corporation. Who is like God? 06:03, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Incarnations
The Incarnations section is empty, since that looks silly and it might remain empty forever, I'm removing it. This talk section should provide any incentive for the missing section if anyone has any info on the subject. I suggest doing this (removal plus note in talk) to any such sections unless they are standard (some stuff is expected for some types of articles, such as a technical explanation for a bug). Who is like God? 01:54, 15 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, I get it now; this was referring to what now is Versions. I think it had the wrong header level, though, unless I missed that too. But I do think "versions" is better for a fictional character. Who is like God? 16:39, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I have no opinion on your question, but as a general comment, if a formatting guideline isn't specifically mentioned here, it probably doesn't have broad consensus yet. For example, most articles about maps use this outline, but not all.    Ryan W 11:35, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Image
Remove the image at the top of the page. It's fanart, and not canon.


 * That's been discussed before. See here: Image talk:UAC.PNG. Who is like God? 05:33, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Instead of weird fanart that doesn't use correct hair color, why don't we use a sprite from the game with the face from the status bar underneath it for the under-helmet view? B10Reaper 00:08, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Doom 3:ROE guy
I believe something in game pointed out that he is the same marine as the first doom, and was sent back due to being a vetran of the first invasion. I am gonna go back and play through the game to be sure, but the beginning of the article states that it is a different marine. The marine in the game is obviously much older, so even if it isn't stated, it is entirely possible. B10Reaper 16:57, 7 December 2008 (UTC)B10Reaper

ambidextrous
It says in the article he may be ambidextrous but in a situation like the one he is in, a soldier may punch and keep a small arm to his left as to have easier access to a larger shotgun, chain gun to his right making switching between those more easier. Just an idea if this artical is willing to go that far into that.
 * Unfortunately that's just speculation. Without anything to back it up, it isn't really appropriate to include in the article. Fraggle 16:52, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

No mention of John Stalvern
Why not? 70.176.210.244 02:48, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

It now occurs to me that John Stalvern was probably not the protagonist in any Doom. Rather, he just became one of those zombie marines you fight. Never mind. 70.176.210.244 19:12, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

Eye color
One can see several blue pixels in doomguy's eyes on STFEVL (and several other) frames of status bar face graphics. At the same time, STFOUCH face clearly has brown eyes. Looks like our hero initially bore more resemblance to BJ Blaczkowicz :) Mikerakhabit 16:44, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

City of birth or home city?
Shouldn't the article mention the Doom guy's city of birth or rather home city (where he lived his entire life)? Even though the city is unnamed there could be mention of "The Doom Guy was born in an unnamed city which was later run over by Hell itself". GhostlyDeath 06:49, 17 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Since the character doesn't really have a backstory, I can't see what purpose that would serve. Same way we don't allude to how old he might be and how there isn't an official name for him. - DooMAD 17:01, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Major changes in Eternal
The unification of canon going on in Eternal I believe creates a good time to examine the long-term fate of this article - it is presently a mess by trying to cover all protagonists in every game, many of which have nothing to do with each other. And in some cases, it is drawing false parallels in an attempt to assume some of them are the same person when they're not, such as the way the Doom 3 marine is described. I believe the best long-term situation to work toward is the following: This one simply cannot continue to grow indefinitely and become more and more of a mess. --Quasar (talk) 14:22, 23 March 2020 (CDT)
 * One article for the Doomguy/Slayer, which also covers obvious Doomguy alternates like the Doom RPG series' protags and appearances in other games.
 * One article for the Doom 3 series protags.
 * Articles as appropriate for other information.


 * I support your proposal but am unable to contribute, having little knowledge about any of this. --Xymph (talk) 15:57, 23 March 2020 (CDT)
 * Likewise. Furthermore, the first article could have something resembling a chronology assembled, which I'll write down in a section below this one. --69.138.27.21 18:15, 23 March 2020 (CDT)

I have carried out the split of Doom 3 material into Doom 3 protagonists. --Quasar (talk) 22:11, 24 May 2020 (CDT)


 * I am not happy with the changes, especially with the fact that the article now willingly ignores that the Doom 3 protagonist was Doom 3's take on the orginal Doom marine character. I can see why you did this (unification of canon post Doom 2016), but I think it is important that Doomwiki is not a fan fiction wiki. The purpose of this article is to document the protagonist/player character in all the Doom games, as confusing as it may be, not to re-interprete things to make it fit with the Doom 2016/Eternal lore. So, for the original Doom protagonist this means he has very little backstory because he's supposed to be you (like Romero said). Then came Doom 3's take on the Doom marine, which is similar (new marine character without much background information arrives on Mars). This should just be objectively described as it was realised in 2004. I agree to you that there is no room to speculate about the origins of this character or if he could be identical with original Doom's protagonist. But he is the 2004 take on the protagonist. The info from the official Matthew Costello novels could be added here, as well as the fact that the Doom movie with Karl Urban is also losely based on this depiction of the Doom marine. And the marine IS the main protagonist of Doom 3, not an array of random characters. Quake Champions also acknowledges this with the inclusion of 3 skin variants: Doom Slayer (Doom 2016), Doom marine (Doom 3) and original Doomguy (Doom/Doom II). Then came Doom 2016/Doom Eternal and retconned the whole Doomguy character, re-inventing him as the "Doomslayer", as some kind of superhero, and linking the new lore to the original Doom player character. This should be all described, but we should not generally re-interprete the original Doomguy as "Doomslayer" (there was no "Doomlsayer" in 1993) and discretely brush Doom 3 aside in the process.--Tetzlaff (talk) 03:09, 8 July 2020 (CDT)
 * For what it's worth, I largely agree. Removing Doom 3 from here seems odd; kind of like pretending Doom 3 never happened. --Gez (talk) 04:36, 8 July 2020 (CDT)


 * That isn't the goal or intention. It's recognition that the characters appear to be separate and shouldn't be addressed as if they are one and the same and limited to discussion that attempts to inflate similarities between them beyond the superficial, as the prose that was previously here attempted. --Quasar (talk) 15:38, 8 July 2020 (CDT)


 * I have added some prose with a main article link as a potential compromise. Feel free to adjust as needed. --Quasar (talk) 15:45, 8 July 2020 (CDT)
 * Thanks, that's better.--Tetzlaff (talk) 03:30, 9 July 2020 (CDT)

Doomguy's history
While everything prior to his discovery by the Night Sentinels is hard to determine, this seems like a rough chronology for th Doom Slayer's exploits (as suggested by the Doom Eternal Codex, or at least the parts I've seen of it):
 * Events of Doom
 * Events of Doom II
 * Events of Doom 64
 * Doomguy first appears on Sentinel Prime, badly injured and rambling about "impending doom and the forces of darkness". He is sent to fight in the Coliseum to prove his worthiness of an honorable death fighting the enemies of the Argenta. The Khan Maykr is intrigued by what he says about Hell.
 * The first demonic invasion of Sentinel Prime; the Argenta and Maykrs learn how to use the soul essence of the demons as energy. Doomguy becomes a trusted ally and is inducted into the Night Sentinels, despite being an outsider.
 * A Titan attacks Argent D'Nur. Doomguy is empowered by the Seraphim for reasons unknown. Henceforth he becomes known to the Night Sentinels as the Doom Slayer.
 * Argent D'Nur falls. After an unknown period of time Doomguy is trapped and imprisoned.
 * Events of Doom (2016)
 * Events of Doom Eternal

All this is tentative of course but it's as good of a framework as any other.--69.138.27.21 18:16, 23 March 2020 (CDT)

Rejected edits
There's clearly some confusion over why the edit is rejected so here's your explanation: This is considered a high quality article; your edits need to be excellent to be accepted here and this is not. --Quasar (talk) 13:29, 1 June 2023 (CDT)
 * Assigns undue weight to non-canonical information. The name from the novels is already mentioned in the section dealing with names and extended universe material; it does not belong in the lede of the article.
 * Equates Doom Eternal innovations with the original backstory. Those should be mentioned in the Doom Eternal section, not there.
 * Adds unnecessary vague words that do not enhance the existing meaning (such as "somewhat").